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	<title>Comments on: Habs riot myths</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/</link>
	<description>Can you think of a better name?</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Livewire</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-28718</link>
		<dc:creator>Livewire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 03:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-28718</guid>
		<description>Congratulations on debunking several myths that don't exist in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations on debunking several myths that don&#8217;t exist in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27319</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27319</guid>
		<description>Hi Steve!  It would be awesome if Montreal fans in the Bell Center could be classier. I agree that there's no saying that the people doing this aren't fans of hockey, but I think that's really beside the point in all this. Like, maybe the game got their testosterone flowing, but the beer and maleness and asshole-genes got the stupid flowing, and that's rather more pertinent in all of this. The defensiveness about saying they're hockey fans comes more from the embarrassment of the whole thing (ie, my mom calling from California because she hears on the news that "montreal hockey fans trash the downtown area because the team won the quarterfinals" and wants to know who these people are that I'm hanging out with.) Cripes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve!  It would be awesome if Montreal fans in the Bell Center could be classier. I agree that there&#8217;s no saying that the people doing this aren&#8217;t fans of hockey, but I think that&#8217;s really beside the point in all this. Like, maybe the game got their testosterone flowing, but the beer and maleness and asshole-genes got the stupid flowing, and that&#8217;s rather more pertinent in all of this. The defensiveness about saying they&#8217;re hockey fans comes more from the embarrassment of the whole thing (ie, my mom calling from California because she hears on the news that &#8220;montreal hockey fans trash the downtown area because the team won the quarterfinals&#8221; and wants to know who these people are that I&#8217;m hanging out with.) Cripes.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27267</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27267</guid>
		<description>Not so sure I buy all of these "myth busters".

   If you read LaPresse, they quote a criminologist who claims this falls into classic Hooliganism. Holligans are not "uber fans", they are people looking to cause a riot. To profit from a situation. LaPresse also quotes a sociologist who agrees entirely with this point of view.

    In regards to what went on inside the Bell Center, I've been to several matches and I have been to matches in other cities. Montreal is by far the town with some of the most respectful fans. There were no signs of Hooliganism in the Bell Center during Game 7. So that myth bust, falls flat IMHO.

   I also take issue with the argument that it was not a handful of rioters. A full out riot in where a large number of people took part, as opposed to a handful, would have caused A LOT more damage.. Think 1993 or better yet, Rodney King.

    But the real question is WHY WAS CHANTAL FONATAINE TREATED SO BADLY BY RAD-CAN!?! ;-) ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not so sure I buy all of these &#8220;myth busters&#8221;.</p>
<p>   If you read LaPresse, they quote a criminologist who claims this falls into classic Hooliganism. Holligans are not &#8220;uber fans&#8221;, they are people looking to cause a riot. To profit from a situation. LaPresse also quotes a sociologist who agrees entirely with this point of view.</p>
<p>    In regards to what went on inside the Bell Center, I&#8217;ve been to several matches and I have been to matches in other cities. Montreal is by far the town with some of the most respectful fans. There were no signs of Hooliganism in the Bell Center during Game 7. So that myth bust, falls flat IMHO.</p>
<p>   I also take issue with the argument that it was not a handful of rioters. A full out riot in where a large number of people took part, as opposed to a handful, would have caused A LOT more damage.. Think 1993 or better yet, Rodney King.</p>
<p>    But the real question is WHY WAS CHANTAL FONATAINE TREATED SO BADLY BY RAD-CAN!?! ;-) ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Ruttan</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27265</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Ruttan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27265</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this. But haven't there historically been spring riots in Montreal? I'm not judging the effect or severity, but arriving in Montreal 20 years ago I was warned (or encouraged) about the bonfires in St. Henri on Victoria Day's eve. Maybe people need a release, even if they don't take it very graciously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this. But haven&#8217;t there historically been spring riots in Montreal? I&#8217;m not judging the effect or severity, but arriving in Montreal 20 years ago I was warned (or encouraged) about the bonfires in St. Henri on Victoria Day&#8217;s eve. Maybe people need a release, even if they don&#8217;t take it very graciously.</p>
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		<title>By: Allan</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27263</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27263</guid>
		<description>I was there. I wasnt cheering these people on, nor was i filming any of this to put it on youtube. I had gone to celebrate the win, and I guess we were in the wrong because I know it isnt a great thing to block off a major street and to yell and cheer and to drink in public. But for about an hour that is all it was: no vandalism, just innocent enough. Then out of nowhere it got out of hand really quickly. I was about 2 blocks down on a stairwell trying to see what happened untill riot police pushed the crowd up towards sherbrooke and vandals dispersed making it impossible for police to stop. 

 I can tell you that there were no molotov cocktails used by the guys i saw trying to light their shirts on fire (to torch cop cars). When I left the no looting had occurred yet so alcohol bottles were not used to start the fires. 

Also, I think this is a pretty good analysis except for a few things. I did not once see a homeless person doing any damage to anything! What I saw was people with bandanas over their faces, dressed in 100$ Gangstaa shirts and drunken habs fans doing all the damage.

Also, I highly suspect that a few individuals did have this planned. The majority of rioters were not going their to riot I agree, they just got caught up in the stupidity, but I sincerely believe that there were a few idiots who ceased the opportunity to start this. Nobody carrys toilet paper in their pocket, yet there was alot of it all over the trees and streets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was there. I wasnt cheering these people on, nor was i filming any of this to put it on youtube. I had gone to celebrate the win, and I guess we were in the wrong because I know it isnt a great thing to block off a major street and to yell and cheer and to drink in public. But for about an hour that is all it was: no vandalism, just innocent enough. Then out of nowhere it got out of hand really quickly. I was about 2 blocks down on a stairwell trying to see what happened untill riot police pushed the crowd up towards sherbrooke and vandals dispersed making it impossible for police to stop. </p>
<p> I can tell you that there were no molotov cocktails used by the guys i saw trying to light their shirts on fire (to torch cop cars). When I left the no looting had occurred yet so alcohol bottles were not used to start the fires. </p>
<p>Also, I think this is a pretty good analysis except for a few things. I did not once see a homeless person doing any damage to anything! What I saw was people with bandanas over their faces, dressed in 100$ Gangstaa shirts and drunken habs fans doing all the damage.</p>
<p>Also, I highly suspect that a few individuals did have this planned. The majority of rioters were not going their to riot I agree, they just got caught up in the stupidity, but I sincerely believe that there were a few idiots who ceased the opportunity to start this. Nobody carrys toilet paper in their pocket, yet there was alot of it all over the trees and streets.</p>
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		<title>By: ohms</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27261</link>
		<dc:creator>ohms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27261</guid>
		<description>The myths busted here are DEAD-ON.  This was a riot of fans in my opinion; fans that were too drunk and clearly too stupid to know any better, but fans nonetheless.  It's not like fans don't riot elsewhere in the world,  it's soccer in South America or Europe or Cricket in India and Pakistan.  Sports hooligans are well documented.  I wish I could find that documentary about the British  soccer hooligans.  I remember them being surprised that a large chunk of these supposed hooligans had jobs, families, kids, etc.  That they were rather normal people most of the time.

I'm disappointed that the media took this severe law and order stance, it's frankly not their job.  All we have had from the media is OPINION, how about some facts? How about having some psychological experts on the air?  What about examining and understanding what happens to otherwise normal people in a mob.      
I think i'm expecting too much from commercial media really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The myths busted here are DEAD-ON.  This was a riot of fans in my opinion; fans that were too drunk and clearly too stupid to know any better, but fans nonetheless.  It&#8217;s not like fans don&#8217;t riot elsewhere in the world,  it&#8217;s soccer in South America or Europe or Cricket in India and Pakistan.  Sports hooligans are well documented.  I wish I could find that documentary about the British  soccer hooligans.  I remember them being surprised that a large chunk of these supposed hooligans had jobs, families, kids, etc.  That they were rather normal people most of the time.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m disappointed that the media took this severe law and order stance, it&#8217;s frankly not their job.  All we have had from the media is OPINION, how about some facts? How about having some psychological experts on the air?  What about examining and understanding what happens to otherwise normal people in a mob.<br />
I think i&#8217;m expecting too much from commercial media really.</p>
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		<title>By: Karine</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27256</link>
		<dc:creator>Karine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27256</guid>
		<description>We live in a city and once in a while, cities got bezerk. Not this "riot" was over in 2 hours, no one died and only 7 stores got broken into. Honestly, I think we got off easy. I'm just mad because I used to work corner Bishop and Ste-Catherine and so I would have seen the aftermath (say, hopefully a smoldering squad car) when I came in the office the next morning...

And as for the police, for once I'm on their side. They did the best they could, sometimes things go wrong no matter how you plan things.

@ Montréaliste: So the kneegrows are to be blamed for the riot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We live in a city and once in a while, cities got bezerk. Not this &#8220;riot&#8221; was over in 2 hours, no one died and only 7 stores got broken into. Honestly, I think we got off easy. I&#8217;m just mad because I used to work corner Bishop and Ste-Catherine and so I would have seen the aftermath (say, hopefully a smoldering squad car) when I came in the office the next morning&#8230;</p>
<p>And as for the police, for once I&#8217;m on their side. They did the best they could, sometimes things go wrong no matter how you plan things.</p>
<p>@ Montréaliste: So the kneegrows are to be blamed for the riot?</p>
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		<title>By: blork</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27246</link>
		<dc:creator>blork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27246</guid>
		<description>Has it been established (or definitively not) that there were Molotov cocktails? Those cop cars were really burning, and they wouldn't burn like that unless there was some kind of accelerant. 

Were the cop cars burning before or after the break-in at the SAQ? Booze could, sort of, be used as a Molotov cocktail, although it doesn't burn nearly as readily as people think.

But there's no way just throwing burning matches or paper into a car will cause it to burn like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has it been established (or definitively not) that there were Molotov cocktails? Those cop cars were really burning, and they wouldn&#8217;t burn like that unless there was some kind of accelerant. </p>
<p>Were the cop cars burning before or after the break-in at the SAQ? Booze could, sort of, be used as a Molotov cocktail, although it doesn&#8217;t burn nearly as readily as people think.</p>
<p>But there&#8217;s no way just throwing burning matches or paper into a car will cause it to burn like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Let&#8217;s play &#34;Spot the morons&#34;! &#124; Montreal Metblogs</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27244</link>
		<dc:creator>Let&#8217;s play &#34;Spot the morons&#34;! &#124; Montreal Metblogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27244</guid>
		<description>[...] After you&#8217;re done, check out Fagstein&#8217;s excellent listing of various Habs riot myths. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] After you&#8217;re done, check out Fagstein&#8217;s excellent listing of various Habs riot myths. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: heri</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27237</link>
		<dc:creator>heri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27237</guid>
		<description>great points, here. 

montrealiste. it has more to do with beer and alcohol than wu tang clan concerts. we have all seen guys with Habs shirts kikcing the police cars. the molotov cocktails were also improvised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great points, here. </p>
<p>montrealiste. it has more to do with beer and alcohol than wu tang clan concerts. we have all seen guys with Habs shirts kikcing the police cars. the molotov cocktails were also improvised.</p>
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		<title>By: HabsFan29</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27234</link>
		<dc:creator>HabsFan29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27234</guid>
		<description>Well done Steve. Probably the most truthful article about the riot yet. You were there. Everyone else who wrote about it (myself included) would have no clue about what really happened. You need to get your Gazette bosses to publish this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done Steve. Probably the most truthful article about the riot yet. You were there. Everyone else who wrote about it (myself included) would have no clue about what really happened. You need to get your Gazette bosses to publish this.</p>
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		<title>By: montrealiste</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27233</link>
		<dc:creator>montrealiste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27233</guid>
		<description>Fans at Centre Bell are usually classier than other hockey fans. Trust me, I've been to Boston, New York, Buffalo, Detroit and Florida. I've been spitted on, pushed, insulted, thrown beer on, ect. I own season tickets in a hot spot in the bleachers and I garantee you that we are classier. Of course, I am comparing drunk hockey fans. I am not defending MTL fans.

I heard that the riot actually started at the Wu Tan Clan concert. Is it possible ? 

And the car burnings occured at 11h30, which indicates that the idiots probably left to go downtown AFTER the game. They had Molotov cocktails, thats what police is saying. I don't think fans took their cocktails at the Bell Center...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fans at Centre Bell are usually classier than other hockey fans. Trust me, I&#8217;ve been to Boston, New York, Buffalo, Detroit and Florida. I&#8217;ve been spitted on, pushed, insulted, thrown beer on, ect. I own season tickets in a hot spot in the bleachers and I garantee you that we are classier. Of course, I am comparing drunk hockey fans. I am not defending MTL fans.</p>
<p>I heard that the riot actually started at the Wu Tan Clan concert. Is it possible ? </p>
<p>And the car burnings occured at 11h30, which indicates that the idiots probably left to go downtown AFTER the game. They had Molotov cocktails, thats what police is saying. I don&#8217;t think fans took their cocktails at the Bell Center&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Blork</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/04/23/habs-riot-myths/#comment-27230</link>
		<dc:creator>Blork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1696#comment-27230</guid>
		<description>Nice analysis. Excellent myth busting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice analysis. Excellent myth busting.</p>
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