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	<title>Comments on: The nitty-gritty of public consultations</title>
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	<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/</link>
	<description>Can you think of a better name?</description>
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		<title>By: Transit Improvement Ideas &#171; Transport in Montreal</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-31756</link>
		<dc:creator>Transit Improvement Ideas &#171; Transport in Montreal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 02:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-31756</guid>
		<description>[...] Fagstein has his take here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fagstein has his take here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30941</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30941</guid>
		<description>Wow, great news that they are at least considering bike racks! I used to live in a very bike-friendly town where all the buses were outfitted with racks on the front, and it allowed people to make longer trips using bikes. I have often found myself missing those and thought they&#039;d be a good fit here in Montreal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, great news that they are at least considering bike racks! I used to live in a very bike-friendly town where all the buses were outfitted with racks on the front, and it allowed people to make longer trips using bikes. I have often found myself missing those and thought they'd be a good fit here in Montreal.</p>
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		<title>By: James Lawlor</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30335</link>
		<dc:creator>James Lawlor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 14:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30335</guid>
		<description>Thank you silhouette for agreeing with me that this is a big time waster for everyone on many buses (there are lots of people affected).

Buses that turn left: 70, 174, 177, 213, 215, 216, 225, 470
Buses that go straight: 121, 171.

If the practical security aspects are insurmountable, then perhaps the buses should travel along Edouard-Laurin instead.  Then the bus lane would only be for the 121 &amp; 171!

Dropping of people at the southern entrance is very impractical because 8 of 10 buses terminate at Cote-Vertu and would then have to somehow get to their pick-up stop at the bus terminal.  Also, how smoothly would this southern entrance work if 10 bus lines are all stopping to drop people of at the same spot?

My idea that was submitted to the committee was to:
- Move the stop line back several meters for all lanes except the bus lane
- Install a priority bus green light to allow the buses to move before the other 3 lanes of traffic are allowed to move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you silhouette for agreeing with me that this is a big time waster for everyone on many buses (there are lots of people affected).</p>
<p>Buses that turn left: 70, 174, 177, 213, 215, 216, 225, 470<br />
Buses that go straight: 121, 171.</p>
<p>If the practical security aspects are insurmountable, then perhaps the buses should travel along Edouard-Laurin instead.  Then the bus lane would only be for the 121 &amp; 171!</p>
<p>Dropping of people at the southern entrance is very impractical because 8 of 10 buses terminate at Cote-Vertu and would then have to somehow get to their pick-up stop at the bus terminal.  Also, how smoothly would this southern entrance work if 10 bus lines are all stopping to drop people of at the same spot?</p>
<p>My idea that was submitted to the committee was to:<br />
- Move the stop line back several meters for all lanes except the bus lane<br />
- Install a priority bus green light to allow the buses to move before the other 3 lanes of traffic are allowed to move.</p>
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		<title>By: silhouette</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30244</link>
		<dc:creator>silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 01:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30244</guid>
		<description>Are you referring to the left-lane on Cote-Vertu before the bus turns left onto Gophier? Something needs to be done there or the STM should just make it a requirement for the 215, et al, to take Edouard-Laurin instead to get to the metro. Buses waste 5-10 minutes on Cote-Vertu during the rush hour because of that damn busy left lane. That or dropping people off at the soutern entrance sounds ok I guess...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you referring to the left-lane on Cote-Vertu before the bus turns left onto Gophier? Something needs to be done there or the STM should just make it a requirement for the 215, et al, to take Edouard-Laurin instead to get to the metro. Buses waste 5-10 minutes on Cote-Vertu during the rush hour because of that damn busy left lane. That or dropping people off at the soutern entrance sounds ok I guess...</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30222</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 21:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30222</guid>
		<description>I find the comments interesting regarding how these public meetings function. In a democracy, it&#039;s important that people have a right to speak their mind. At the same time, though, it tends to impede the ability to actually get anything done in a timely manner. In the end, not everyone will be happy. But good on those people who take the time to express themselves, however silly or self-serving it may be sometimes. You can only effect change if you&#039;re part of the conversation.

I can sympathize with the frustration when someone stands up at a meeting and partakes in a 10-minute self serving diatrabe. If they cut the speaker off, they will be accused of stifling debate and free speech. I have tremendous respect for the bureaucrats who run these meetings and listen to all the comments. It&#039;s a very difficult task to make decisions that are beneficial and acceptable to everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the comments interesting regarding how these public meetings function. In a democracy, it's important that people have a right to speak their mind. At the same time, though, it tends to impede the ability to actually get anything done in a timely manner. In the end, not everyone will be happy. But good on those people who take the time to express themselves, however silly or self-serving it may be sometimes. You can only effect change if you're part of the conversation.</p>
<p>I can sympathize with the frustration when someone stands up at a meeting and partakes in a 10-minute self serving diatrabe. If they cut the speaker off, they will be accused of stifling debate and free speech. I have tremendous respect for the bureaucrats who run these meetings and listen to all the comments. It's a very difficult task to make decisions that are beneficial and acceptable to everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Fagstein</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30195</link>
		<dc:creator>Fagstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 17:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30195</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if I&#039;ll be there June 11 because (1) I already know about the West Island route changes, (2) The West Island is far from here, and (3) I don&#039;t know if I&#039;m working that night.

As for the suggestions:

1. That sounds both impractical and potentially dangerous. There&#039;s a good reason you don&#039;t turn left from a right-hand lane. Either make the left-hand lane a bus lane or, much more practically, have buses like the 470 drop off passengers at the southern entrance.

2. Storage lockers sound interesting, but bulky, expensive and hard to maintain. Certainly worthy of study, but I&#039;m not ready to jump on the bandwagon just yet.

3. I&#039;m not sure about installing tramways. The Gazette&#039;s Henry Aubin made a convincing case a while ago (can&#039;t find a link unfortunately) that electric trolley cars would be better than tramways because they are less expensive per vehicle, and more maneuvrable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't know if I'll be there June 11 because (1) I already know about the West Island route changes, (2) The West Island is far from here, and (3) I don't know if I'm working that night.</p>
<p>As for the suggestions:</p>
<p>1. That sounds both impractical and potentially dangerous. There's a good reason you don't turn left from a right-hand lane. Either make the left-hand lane a bus lane or, much more practically, have buses like the 470 drop off passengers at the southern entrance.</p>
<p>2. Storage lockers sound interesting, but bulky, expensive and hard to maintain. Certainly worthy of study, but I'm not ready to jump on the bandwagon just yet.</p>
<p>3. I'm not sure about installing tramways. The Gazette's Henry Aubin made a convincing case a while ago (can't find a link unfortunately) that electric trolley cars would be better than tramways because they are less expensive per vehicle, and more maneuvrable.</p>
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		<title>By: James Lawlor</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30190</link>
		<dc:creator>James Lawlor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30190</guid>
		<description>Many of the people that attended that meeting are also regular attendees of the NDG borough council meetings.  I’m only 38 so I hope I miss your 40-something demographic that you are talking about.

I’m actually in the photo as well.  I’m on the left-hand-side of the photo with my arm draped on the back of a chair.

I have to agree with you that there were lots of comments that were not very relevant.  Such as: I live on the west Island and didn’t hear about the meeting, AMT should create new train stations, and one metro car didn’t have enough grab bars etc…

Did you hang around to listen to my pearls of wisdom?  I was second-last person to speak!
1) The intersection of Cote-Vertu and Gothier needs to be modified to allow buses to turn left into the AMT Cote-Vertu bus terminal from the reserved bus lane (which is on the right side).

2) Metro stations need bike storage lockers (I blogged about this on my blog here: http://transport514.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/we-need-bike-storage-lockers-at-metro-stations/)

3) We need tramways back in the city.  Mr. Rotrand is not in favour of them because he thinks you can get the same result for less cost with bus rapid transit.  My response is that you get what you pay for and that the cities in Europe, Dubai, Houston aren&#039;t crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of the people that attended that meeting are also regular attendees of the NDG borough council meetings.  I’m only 38 so I hope I miss your 40-something demographic that you are talking about.</p>
<p>I’m actually in the photo as well.  I’m on the left-hand-side of the photo with my arm draped on the back of a chair.</p>
<p>I have to agree with you that there were lots of comments that were not very relevant.  Such as: I live on the west Island and didn’t hear about the meeting, AMT should create new train stations, and one metro car didn’t have enough grab bars etc…</p>
<p>Did you hang around to listen to my pearls of wisdom?  I was second-last person to speak!<br />
1) The intersection of Cote-Vertu and Gothier needs to be modified to allow buses to turn left into the AMT Cote-Vertu bus terminal from the reserved bus lane (which is on the right side).</p>
<p>2) Metro stations need bike storage lockers (I blogged about this on my blog here: <a href="http://transport514.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/we-need-bike-storage-lockers-at-metro-stations/)" rel="nofollow">http://transport514.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/we-need-bike-storage-lockers-at-metro-stations/)</a></p>
<p>3) We need tramways back in the city.  Mr. Rotrand is not in favour of them because he thinks you can get the same result for less cost with bus rapid transit.  My response is that you get what you pay for and that the cities in Europe, Dubai, Houston aren't crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30174</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 15:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30174</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sitting through this meeting and all the dumb questions, and posting this. Seems that everything I learn about transit changes, I learn from Fagstein. Will you be attending the June 11 meeting?

Incidentally, I just got back from NYC, where taking public transit is always one of my fun experiences. One observation: even with a reported upsurge of graffiti in New York, stations, buses and shelters are vastly less defaced than here in Montreal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sitting through this meeting and all the dumb questions, and posting this. Seems that everything I learn about transit changes, I learn from Fagstein. Will you be attending the June 11 meeting?</p>
<p>Incidentally, I just got back from NYC, where taking public transit is always one of my fun experiences. One observation: even with a reported upsurge of graffiti in New York, stations, buses and shelters are vastly less defaced than here in Montreal.</p>
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		<title>By: Fagstein</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30106</link>
		<dc:creator>Fagstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 04:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30106</guid>
		<description>There were a few younger people there, some even asked some interesting questions. But by far the demographic was skewed toward older people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were a few younger people there, some even asked some interesting questions. But by far the demographic was skewed toward older people.</p>
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		<title>By: Guillaume Theoret</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30105</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillaume Theoret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 04:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30105</guid>
		<description>Is the picture in the post from that night? I just noticed that everyone looks at least 40-something. Was there anyone there (other than you) any younger? What was the overall demographic like?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the picture in the post from that night? I just noticed that everyone looks at least 40-something. Was there anyone there (other than you) any younger? What was the overall demographic like?</p>
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		<title>By: Guillaume Theoret</title>
		<link>http://blog.fagstein.com/2008/05/21/stm-consultation-in-cdn/comment-page-1/#comment-30104</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillaume Theoret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 04:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=1800#comment-30104</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m generally happy with the way the STM deals with most of its problems. My pet &quot;demand&quot; is metros until 3am but everyone has something they want that the STM doesn&#039;t have the budget for. Hopefully more money will soon be invested. I think more and more people will be taking public transit as they feel the financial burn of driving to work every day with gas prices soaring forever higher. If the STM doesn&#039;t get more investment crowded times are ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm generally happy with the way the STM deals with most of its problems. My pet "demand" is metros until 3am but everyone has something they want that the STM doesn't have the budget for. Hopefully more money will soon be invested. I think more and more people will be taking public transit as they feel the financial burn of driving to work every day with gas prices soaring forever higher. If the STM doesn't get more investment crowded times are ahead.</p>
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