Posted in Opinion, Video

Le français, avant tout

I’m getting a bit tired of the language debate in Quebec.

I feel a bit guilty saying it, because the neverending battle has become so central to the province’s identity that it’s almost like I can’t call myself a true Québécois unless I have a spot on the front lines. What does it mean to be a Quebecer if not to constantly argue about French vs. English, federalism vs. sovereignty, Liberal vs. PQ/BQ?

The most popular post on this blog, by far, in terms of comments is a criticism I made in 2007 about anglo rights crusader Howard Galganov. The comment mark on that post just passed 500 (all of which I had to individually approve), and new comments are added every day. Discussion of the statements made in the post or of Galganov himself have long fallen by the wayside. The four participants who keep the thread going just yell at each other, call each other racist and compare each other to Hitler in their discussions of the great divide. I block those comments that go too far, but if I deleted those that I didn’t think advanced the conversation enough, over 90% would disappear immediately. At this point, I’m just watching the counter go up, in awe about how much time people can waste trying to change the mind of someone who is obviously never going to agree with you.

Autre

I’m an anglophone. Even though I’ve lived in Quebec my entire life, I’m seen as the enemy. No different than the Rest of Canada. It’s assumed that I’m just waiting for my chance to make it in Toronto or New York, and that I don’t really belong here because I don’t really want to be here. Though I love Quebec as much for its culture (which is inescapably intertwined with its language) as its politics (which is inescapably intertwined with language issues), because I use English more than French in my daily life I’m set aside from real Quebecers.

Once, in a conversation with some young francophone journalists, I was asked about my opinion on Quebec politics in a way that gave me the impression I was introducing these people to a culture they’d only read about. I felt like I was giving them a sociology lesson on what it’s like to be an anglo Quebecer.

One of the things that was odd about the conversation is that it came a bit out of nowhere. People don’t stop me in the street to debate politics. I’ve never been refused service at a commercial establishment on account of my language. Francophone bloggers link to me, and I link to them, with little regard to the fact that our posts are in different languages, unless the thing were talking about is language politics. Quebecers are more concerned with daily life, gossiping or getting laid than they are convincing others of their point of view on separation.

I got dragged into a brief debate about my positions on Bill 101 recently, and though I have serious issues with some of its provisions that seem more anti-English than pro-French (and the psychological factor and selective enforcement only exacerbate the anti-English sentiment), part of me wanted to scream out at one point: “I don’t care!” I can read French signs fine. I can communicate fine in that language (just don’t ask me to write in it for a living). In that sense, Bill 101 doesn’t really affect me. Though I cringe at how much the government is spending on language enforcement rather than language education, I think there are far more pressing issues for it to deal with than reforming our language law.

Pure laine

I bring this up because of a couple of debates going on that really make me wonder where Quebec’s priorities lie.

La Presse’s André Pratte had to apologize on Friday for noting that Michael Sabia, the ex-Bell CEO who has just been named to head the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, is (a) not a Quebecer and (b) doesn’t speak French very well. It seems he was wrong on both counts. Sabia has lived in Quebec for 16 years (“how long do you have to live in Montreal before you become a Quebecer?“) and his French, while accented, is fine. He attributed his first error to “un détestable réflexe québécois” – namely that if you’re anglo, you’re not a Quebecer. Believe me, this is a big problem. It’s not just in Quebec, of course. People, media and PR agencies all over Canada will look at someone with brown skin and assume they’re an immigrant. In the U.S., if you’re latino, it’s assumed you’re an illegal immigrant or the descendant of one.

I accept Pratte’s apology, but he wasn’t the only one to bring this up. Sabia needed to defend himself from an attack by Bernard Landry, saying he’s now chosen to live in Quebec three times since 1993.

UPDATE: No, wait, La Presse has gone back to saying he doesn’t speak French well enough for their liking.

Now we know why there are rules against political interference in the Caisse’s affairs. If something as petty as province of birth is a political issue (and deemed more important than making money for Quebec pensioners) then who knows how many ways 125 MNAs could figure out to screw with the system and doom our finances in order to maintain political correctness.

As Martin Patriquin points out, “Quebec must be the only place in the world where it actually matters what language money speaks.”

Not just money, but pucks.

Jeu de puissance

The other debate, which has just started, is over who will fill Guy Carbonneau’s shoes as head coach of the Canadiens. For any of the other 29 NHL teams, the only criterion would be the ability to coach a team of players to a Stanley Cup victory. (Well, that and not being a child molester, hockey gambling addict or 9/11 terrorist, I guess.) But in Montreal, they want to add another: the ability to speak French. And because former Hamilton Bulldogs coach Don Lever is a prime candidate (he was promoted to Habs assistant coach when Carbonneau was fired), there’s already discussion that, no matter how good a hockey coach he might be, he can’t get the job because he won’t be able to speak properly to the media and to fans. Even Bob Gainey, who speaks French fine but with a strong accent, isn’t good enough for the people at RDS.

The Gazette had a little fun with that Saturday, suggesting some intensive training courses and giving a list of simple phrases for an anglo coach to learn.

This debate should come as no surprise. The same debate has been going on ever since Saku Koivu was promoted to be the Canadiens’ captain. Patrick Lagacé complained about it when he was at the Journal (though he’s softened his stance at La Presse – Lagacé the old softy disputes this in a comment below) in a column more notable in media circles for its hilarious follow-up. Of course, there are plenty of NHL players who don’t speak a word of English, but nobody complains about that. After all, their job is to play hockey, not to give speeches. But, in defence of this particular point, there aren’t any NHL captains who can’t at least carry on a conversation in the language of Gary Bettman.

And then there’s debate any time you see a trade, a call-up, a healthy scratch, or even a line-change which alters the makeup of the team to make it less francophone. It doesn’t matter what Guillaume Latendresse, Maxim Lapierre or Mathieu Dandenault’s skills are. What matters is that they can be interviewed in French on RDS during intermission, and therefore they must be on the team and in the lineup. For these people, a Patrice Brisebois is more valuable than an Andrei Markov, and certainly more than a Mike Komisarek.

Fans can demand these things. It’s their right. And Canadiens fans aren’t exactly known for their logic or cool-headedness anyway. And it’s the government’s right to demand that the head of the Caisse is a Quebec-born francophone who watches Star Académie.

Priorités

But when you say that language and nationality is more important than skill, you can’t complain when you don’t get results compared to others. You can’t complain that the Caisse is losing more money than other pension funds when you passed over a qualified anglophone for a less qualified francophone for the job. You can’t complain that the Canadiens failed to bring home their expected 25th Stanley Cup when you cut the field of head coach candidates to less than half of what it was so that RDS viewers don’t feel uncomfortable.

In the United States, the military is mocked because it fires gay Arabic translators even when it’s in desperate need of them. We make fun of the Americans because they put what you are above what you know, to their own disadvantage.

Sometimes, I wonder if Quebec is any better.

Except, I’m tired of debating the point. So I’m just going to hit “publish” and move on to something more interesting.

UPDATE: More discussion of this on Lagacé’s blog, which also talks about Simons’s opposition to that stupid OQLF sticker campaign.

416 thoughts on “Le français, avant tout

  1. Westerner

    “Oh, the sweet irony of the “nothwistanding” clause, which was put in the charter at the insistence of the western provinces who wanted to be able to discriminate against the french”

    Did Quebec sign of on the consitution. if not then I would suppose they can’t invoke this clause as they didnt agree to it.

    Disciminate against the french…pour quoi….Westerners could give a damn about french as it doesn’t have any effect upon them…. Jean, you should get some drugs to treat your anglo paranoia. No one is out to get you because we really don’t give a shit….about your french….and anything else in Quebec other than the huge amount of funds that go into that money pit….

    Even a dog does not bit the hand that feeds it…but not you Jean along with the others in you misguided notions. Ignorance is said to be bliss..my word…you must be very happy and content!!

    Reply
  2. Jean Naimard

    Is 8.5 billion in prequatione poppycock..not chump change to me. Did you not lose the battle on the plains? Go hide your head in the corner in shame.

    Shame for what? Getting back value for our tax dollars?

    You have nothing to respond because it is the truth…

    We pay 12 billion dollars in taxes to Canada. And we have the high-technology, while the west only have cows and oil.
     

    Did Quebec sign of on the consitution. if not then I would suppose they can’t invoke this clause as they didnt agree to it.

    The law is the law, and you’re subject to it, even if you don’t like it.

    Disciminate against the french…pour quoi….

    So the incompentent family-compact can run the show? Governor Murray lamented being prevented from hiring competent french people to administer Canada because the intolerant anti-catholic english laws prevented him to do so, and had to make do with the utterly incompetent merchants that washed on canadian soil because they were too incompetent to make a good living in England.

    Westerners could give a damn about french as it doesn’t have any effect upon them….

    Sure it does: the french on cereal boxes infuriate you guys.

    Jean, you should get some drugs to treat your anglo paranoia. No one is out to get you because we really don’t give a shit….about your french….and anything else in Quebec other than the huge amount of funds that go into that money pit….

    Well, you DO give a shit; don’t you hear the big whines about law 101 that prevents the english from anglicizing the immigrants???

    Even a dog does not bit the hand that feeds it…but not you Jean along with the others in you misguided notions. Ignorance is said to be bliss..my word…you must be very happy and content!!

    Sneer. We feed ourselves.

    I am a Champion for Canada, et Le Québec est Inclus dans Mon Pays
    http://www.sqlservercentral.com/blogs/hugo/archive/2009/07/14/i-am-a-champion-for-canada-et-le-qu-233-bec-est-inclus-dans-mon-pays.aspx

    Do you really want me to register there so I can beat your arse on your own ground???
    You’re not a champion for Canada, you’re a champion for the british empire, one of the most thoroughly detested and hated institution in all History.

    Reply
  3. Westerner

    Hugo,

    Read your article and it was quite well written I will admit.

    Buuut. the ROC is fed up with Quebec and their incessant demands and infliction of their language in areas where it is of no significance or validity. Anglos discriminated by artificial bilingual hiring quotas..

    I am sorry, I don’t by your arguments on bilingualism across our nation. It has no validity to close to 90% of the population. Of course the federal government policies, are being formulated by those that are from Quebec (and bilingual due to regional interests)

    When Quebec gets out of its “self inflicted rut”, becomes a net contributor rather than a parasite to the balance of the country, anglo discrimination in the civil service is ended and further the continued presence of the treasonous BQ is ended…Then perhaps we can talk. Until that time Quebec should be viewed with the utmost of scrutiny and not be trusted to be truly acting in the interests of Canada. The only thing I see, is Quebec acting upon their own selfish interests.

    What province has brought the most grief to the country as a whole?

    Now then the bottom line. A great many people vote for the BQ and PQ. So I can only conclude that a great many Quebecers have their own interests in hand and NOT those of the entire country. Should this be the case as the voting seems to indicate, then perhaps, Its time to say Goodbye.

    Reply
  4. Hugo

    ‘….one of the most thoroughly detested and hated institution in all History.’ — propaganda, projection, harassment, scape goating, fear…but you are still in the end a loser from a faction that is becoming ignored more and more (until they next time the PQ windges and lie like kids in the schoolyard to surge up their following to maybe 50%). Seriously, if you don’t like being in the Commonwealth, then you have every right to leave and not drag us all down with your unhappiness (since we don’t want unhappy people in Canada). You know, if you’re part Scot then this will ring true for you very well: Get Stuffed!

    I know of the strong negative interdependence point Westerner (thanks for the kudos, please register and rate it then please), it has much weight (mentioned it at the end of my original posting on this subject on SSC), I’m still giving the majority of QCs the choice to realise how bad the situation has become for minorities…there has to be a balance, not a continued set of actions as if still in vindication for a situation that disappeared more than a generation ago.

    Reply
  5. Jean Naimard

    Buuut. the ROC is fed up with Quebec and their incessant demands and infliction of their language in areas where it is of no significance or validity. Anglos discriminated by artificial bilingual hiring quotas..

    Though fucking noogies. It’s about time education and culture be shoved down the throats of you rednecks. But of course I’m joking. History has shown that it is impossible to educate rednecks.

    I am sorry, I don’t by your arguments on bilingualism across our nation. It has no validity to close to 90% of the population. Of course the federal government policies, are being formulated by those that are from Quebec (and bilingual due to regional interests)

    Bilingualism also has no validity for Québec, because it is only a mechanism to insure that the normal, ordinary unblessed with being a federal civil servant english will not have to learn french, even in Québec.

    When Quebec gets out of its “self inflicted rut”, becomes a net contributor

    Oh, we are a net contributor. We pay more money in taxes than we receive in payments, despite what you claim.

    rather than a parasite to the balance of the country, anglo discrimination in the civil service is ended and further the continued presence of the treasonous BQ is ended…

    How a democratically-elected political party can be treasonous? Surely if it was illegal it would not have been elected, no?
    You sound silly with those shoot-from-the-hip generalizations; they only confirm you as a diehard redneck, which if you had a minimum of education, would find embarrassing.

    Then perhaps we can talk. Until that time Quebec should be viewed with the utmost of scrutiny and not be trusted to be truly acting in the interests of Canada. The only thing I see, is Quebec acting upon their own selfish interests.

    Ooooh, and pray tell, what is wrong with acting upon our own selfish interests? It is surely not different from what other do. Why should Québec be treated differently and be the one who shall not look after itself?

    What province has brought the most grief to the country as a whole?

    Manitoba, when the french were forcefully assimilated into english.

    Now then the bottom line. A great many people vote for the BQ and PQ. So I can only conclude that a great many Quebecers have their own interests in hand and NOT those of the entire country.

    Just like Canada has it’s own interests, and they don’t often coincide with Québec’s.

    Should this be the case as the voting seems to indicate, then perhaps, Its time to say Goodbye.

    Yeah, good riddance!

    Reply
  6. Line

    I no longer intend to respond to Jean’s rants as that’s what they are.
    For those who are capable of reading French and are into history, I invite you to check out the following blog: (this individual does extensive research and backs up all his learnings with either books or news articles from several Quebec newspapers from the past, quite an interesting read). Certainly provides a better understanding of Quebec’s true history and not revisionist.
    http://lapresd.blogspot.com/

    Reply
  7. Line

    Marc,
    As for Bill 104, I believe it will be left intact despite the fact that the QESBA has stated they contribute to the French community by going above and beyond what is outlined by the Minister of Education and by producing fluently bilingual students. The reason being is both Provincial and Federal government are on the same side in that this law is necessary in order to maintain the survival of the French language in Quebec. (A bunch of croc I know). The case was heard in December. From what I read, it will take anywhere between 3-6 months for them to reach a verdict.

    Reply
  8. Westerner

    “Oh, we are a net contributor. We pay more money in taxes than we receive in payments, despite what you claim.”

    No your not…you and your lot are just a bunch of parasites sucking the blood out of others.
    8.5 B in Equalization alone. Moron!!

    “How a democratically-elected political party can be treasonous? Surely if it was illegal it would not have been elected, no?”

    As I said in another thread, check out the definition of teason. They (the BQ) should be hung and pissed on. Imagine, a party trying to subvert a nation all the time being paid to do so to those they want to inflict damage. Incredible state of affairs that is allowed to continue by our gutless politicians in Ottawa who only exhibit self interest.

    “Manitoba, when the french were forcefully assimilated into english.”

    Really, has Manitoba been threatening separation, has there ever been and FLQ in Manitoba. Wait a minute maybe Louis Riel, but of course what happened to him. Has Manitoba been deemed a “state” within a nation.

    Reply
  9. Didi47

    To Westerner, Hugo, Chris, Line etc..

    Did you know the Language Commissioner is supposed to ensure that language duality is enforced throughout Canada – in Federal Institutions. He does dick all… anywhere else. “In 2005, the Official Languages Act was once again modified to remind federal institutions of their responsibility to take positive measures to support the development of official language communities and to promote linguistic duality.”

    Problem is… The ability to work in either language in Quebec Federal Offices… is TOTALLY IGNORED. The percentage of non francophones working in Federal Offices throughout Quebec outside of the Greater Montreal area is around (except near the capital etc.. where it’s approx…07%) .01%..

    The percentage of FEDERAL EMPLOYEES that are: non francophone & ANGLOPHONE working in the GREATER MONTREAL AREA… where the MAJORITY population is NON FRANCOPHONE…and ANGLOPHONE is around .03%!!!!

    Looks like the Language Commissioner… spends ALL his time and energy… on the duality …. outside QUEBEC!!! He’s USELESS for us!! He’s DISCRIMINATING against non francophone Quebeckers!!!

    “In this section, you will find all the information you need to file a complaint under the Official Languages Act. You will also find information on how to apply for a court remedy as well as on legal interventions by the Commissioner of Official Languages.

    Some official languages rights are set out in sections 16-20 and 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

    The Official Languages Act guarantees Canadians the following rights:

    * Any member of the public can communicate with the head or central office of any federal institution subject to the Act, as well as with the offices of these institutions that are designated bilingualGovernment site, in either English or French.
    * Federal public servants have the right to work in the official language of their choice in the regions designated bilingual for the purposes of language of work Government site.
    * All Canadians, whether English-speaking or French-speaking and without regard to their ethnic origin or first language learned, have the right to benefit from the Government of Canada’s commitment to ensuring that they have equal opportunities to obtain employment and advancement in federal institutions.

    One of the Commissioner of Official Languages’ many roles is to take measures to ensure recognition of the status of each of the official languages and respect of the spirit and intent of the Official Languages Act in the administration of the affairs of federal institutions, including the advancement of English and French in Canadian society. This includes receiving complaints from the public and taking action further to these complaints, if applicable.

    Here are the regions that are considered BILINGUAL in Quebec.. The bilingual region of Montreal

    1. The county of Deux-Montagnes including:

    (a) Cities
    Deux-Montagnes
    Ste-Scholastique

    (b) Towns
    Oka-sur-le-Lac
    St-Eustache

    2. The county of Île-de-Montréal and Île-Jésus including:

    (a) Cities
    Beaconsfield
    Côte-St-Luc
    Dorval
    Lachine
    LaSalle
    Laval
    Montréal
    Montréal-Nord
    Outremont
    Pierrefonds
    Pointe-aux-Trembles
    Pointe-Claire
    St-Laurent
    St-Léonard
    Verdun
    Westmount

    (a) Towns
    Anjou
    Baie-d’Urfé
    Dollard-des-Ormeaux
    Hampstead
    Île-Dorval
    Kirkland
    Montréal-Est
    Montréal-Ouest
    Mont-Royal
    Roxboro
    Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue
    Ste-Geneviève
    St-Pierre

    3. The county of La Prairie including:

    (a) Towns
    Brossard
    Candiac
    Delson
    La Prairie

    4. The county of Vaudreuil including:

    (a) Towns
    Dorion
    Hudson
    Île-Cadieux
    Île-Perrot
    Pincourt
    Pointe-du-Moulin
    Rigaud
    Vaudreuil
    D. The bilingual regions of “other parts of Quebec”

    1. The county of Bonaventure including:

    (a) Town
    New-Richmond

    2. The county of Gaspé-Est including:

    (a) Cities
    Gaspé
    Percé

    (b) Town
    Chandler

    3. The county of Brome including:

    (a) Towns
    Bromont
    Lac-Brome
    Sutton

    4. The county of Compton including:

    (a) Towns
    Cookshire
    East-Angus
    Scotstown
    Waterville

    5. The county of Huntingdon including:

    (a) Town
    Huntingdon

    6. The county of Missisquoi including:

    (a) City
    Farnham

    (b) Towns
    Bedford
    Cowansville

    7. The county of Richmond including:

    (a) Towns
    Asbestos
    Bromptonville
    Danville
    Richmond
    Windsor

    8. The county of Sherbrooke including:

    (a) City
    Sherbrooke

    (b) Town
    Lennoxville

    9. The county of Stanstead including:

    (a) City
    Magog

    (b) Towns
    Coaticook
    Rock Island

    10. The county of Argenteuil including:

    (a) City
    Lachute

    (b) Town
    Barkmere

    11. The county of Pontiac
    (excluding those sections of the county located in the National Capital Region)

    Reply
  10. Line

    I would gladly send a letter of complaint if you can provide links to the figures you’ve quoted above as I cannot quote Fagsteins blog when writing the letter.
    Thanks in advance

    Reply
  11. Jean Naimard

     

    As I said in another thread, check out the definition of teason. They (the BQ) should be hung and pissed on. Imagine, a party trying to subvert a nation all the time being paid to do so to those they want to inflict damage. Incredible state of affairs that is allowed to continue by our gutless politicians in Ottawa who only exhibit self interest.

    Congratulations for jumping the shark!
     

    Problem is… The ability to work in either language in Quebec Federal Offices… is TOTALLY IGNORED. The percentage of non francophones working in Federal Offices throughout Quebec outside of the Greater Montreal area is around (except near the capital etc.. where it’s approx…07%) .01%..

    Which fits the proportion of english outside Montréal.
    You are just annoyed at having to learn french in order to get a better job.
    No one is shedding tears over your self-inflicted predicament.

    Reply
  12. Westerner

    Didi,

    The office of the language commissioner is totally useless in Quebec as they are subverted by the local unilingual french status in Quebec. Of course, they do nothing and I have brought this to their attention. Needless to say, when the potatoe is too hot, they either ignore the question or differ to another department as its not their responsibility. This is why I say the entire OLA is a collapsed pharce, the office and department should be shut down and the money spent elsewhere.

    After all, they seem to go around in English Canada sticking their noses in everyones business but the allow laws as 101 to exist. What good do they serve.

    I am still waiting for an answer to a question about the bilingual hiring quotas in the various regions of Canada. Strange, they say they can’t answer that question. They know full well that when yo compare the quotas enforced in the federal civil serivce against the actual needs it is so out of sorts as to be ridiculous. They don’t want people to know how much money they have wasted. There was an attempt to identify the costs and Chretein himself called it off. If the people dont know they wont care, if they are given the information…LOOK OUT.

    Reply
  13. Westerner

    “Shame for what? Getting back value for our tax dollars?”

    You get all that back plus the welfare on top. How does it feel to be on welfare “”frere Jean”" !!! Of course you must not mind it which is a good measure of your character. What was it again..130 hour a year less work than the average Canadian. You must have fallen off the boat early in life!

    “We pay 12 billion dollars in taxes to Canada. And we have the high-technology, while the west only have cows and oil.”

    The only thing you have is welfare. About Bombardier and the high tech sector. You want to get into the loan guarantees to Quebec business by Canada. (Bombardier etc etc) Lacky!

    “Sure it does: the french on cereal boxes infuriate you guys.”

    You might think so but no, actually it doesn’t. Pisses me off that companies in Canada have to pay for this because of your maudits langue that is only spoken in Quebec. You see, Jean, it doesn’t matter to me..if it pissed me off all I have to do is turn the box around. Just like the ROC can turn the box around on your piss assed province, if they wish.

    “Well, you DO give a shit; don’t you hear the big whines about law 101 that prevents the english from anglicizing the immigrants???”

    Not about the JOUAL Jean, just about the discrimination against minorities, the same if there was any other form of discrimination. You see, out here, we are people who are not so bigotted as to have laws like 101. 101 is a bigotted law put in to protect something that doesnt need protection at the expense of a minority. Actually, I think more appropriate it is a law brought in as a vindictive tactic and a form of revenge against people you are afraid to admit are more successful than yourselves. Who is not at the head of the Caisse Depot now that it has been uncovered the realities of how competent the former people were running things. More facts to destroy you weak racist arguments.

    “Sneer. We feed ourselves.”

    Yes with other peoples money…You are on welfare Jean…Come on now, just admit it as the figures don’t lie. What was it 8.5 B and more to the business sector that you conveniently reminded me about.

    “Do you really want me to register there so I can beat your arse on your own ground???”

    Not my argument, I am sure Hugo will reply. Just my comment…you couldn’t win a fight with Shebbeare unless he became a mental quadrapalegic. You simply do not possess the IQ for that. Sorry Jean, you are a loser.

    Reply
  14. Didi47

    Line,
    Call the Office itself. That’s who gave me the number. Total # of non francophones working in Federal Offices throughout Quebec is: .07%.

    We then went on to discuss how that broke down. I’ve been into the actual figures (all round) for more than 25 years. Go back and see my prior posts. Have yet to be proven wrong, in spite of the Jean’s etc…. screeching.. I’m way out of line.

    You should have heard ‘them’ yell when I wrote about non franchones being the majority in Greater Montreal. All hell broke loose.. with denials etc.. But truth is truth.. facts are facts.. And as I used to tell my son.. “The truth always comes back to bite you in the ass.”

    Reply
  15. Line

    Westerner,
    Who really has Naimard beat? I see him spewing a lot of hot air but never really “winning” anything…how can you when you debate using emotion?
    And as far as the OLA and writing the language commissioner, you’re probably right…I received a response from James Moore full of bullshit about what is allotted in Quebec to promote English. I guess I’ll spare myself the effort of writing to the language commissioner.

    Reply
  16. Jean Naimard

    You get all that back plus the welfare on top. How does it feel to be on welfare “”frere Jean”" !!!

    I am not your brother.

    Of course you must not mind it which is a good measure of your character. What was it again..130 hour a year less work than the average Canadian. You must have fallen off the boat early in life!

    I know it’s hard to admit that life has given you a raw deal, but the fact is you guys have to work longer than us to pay for the bare necessities of life.

    The only thing you have is welfare. About Bombardier and the high tech sector. You want to get into the loan guarantees to Quebec business by Canada. (Bombardier etc etc) Lacky!

    Jealous.

    You might think so but no, actually it doesn’t. Pisses me off that companies in Canada have to pay for this because of your maudits langue that is only spoken in Quebec.

    Poor little doggie. Blame the federal government for that.

    You see, Jean, it doesn’t matter to me..if it pissed me off all I have to do is turn the box around. Just like the ROC can turn the box around on your piss assed province, if they wish.

    Well, it seems they don’t. Oh well. Win some, lose most of them.

    Not about the JOUAL Jean, just about the discrimination against minorities,

    So, let me get this straight: making immigrants speak english is okay, but making them speak french is bad?
    Can you explain the, et… “logic” behind that???

    the same if there was any other form of discrimination. You see, out here, we are people who are not so bigotted as to have laws like 101.

    Well, when you are an elephant, you don’t need protection against groundhogs. (And the fact that no one is peddling groundhog insurance to elephants is indicative that elephants are not suckers — a good point for them)…

    101 is a bigotted law put in to protect something that doesnt need protection at the expense of a minority.

    Oh? Which minority is being discriminated against? The tiny minority that has it’s media, it’s hospitals, it’s schools, it’s exclusive institutions??? The well-pampered minority????

    Actually, I think more appropriate it is a law brought in as a vindictive tactic and a form of revenge against people you are afraid to admit are more successful than yourselves.

    The fact that we have resisted all attempts at assimilation thrown at us for the last quarter millenium means that we do not consider you more successful than ourselves. But I do not expect you to understand that, you are anglo-saxon, and anglo-saxons are culturally incapable of understanding other cultures.

    Who is not at the head of the Caisse Depot now that it has been uncovered the realities of how competent the former people were running things. More facts to destroy you weak racist arguments.

    The Caisse plunged following anglo-saxon-by-proxy interference.

    “Sneer. We feed ourselves.”
    Yes with other peoples money…You are on welfare Jean…Come on now, just admit it as the figures don’t lie. What was it 8.5 B and more to the business sector that you conveniently reminded me about.

    You are grasping at straws; the west has painted itself in a corner with it’s dirty oil monoculture.

    Not my argument, I am sure Hugo will reply. Just my comment…you couldn’t win a fight with Shebbeare unless he became a mental quadrapalegic.

    Shebbeare is just a rhodesian who is pissed that he cannot be 100% english in a 90% french place. Over you he has the advantage to be right on the spot, rather than 3000 miles away, but it seems that he cannot use it, as his powers of observations are dulled by his imperialistic culture.

    You simply do not possess the IQ for that. Sorry Jean, you are a loser.

    What do I lose?
     

    What’s with the “poppycock” usage? Who is this guy anyway, Parizeau?

    Digitus in oculo!*
    * With apologies to Jacques Parizeau. (Said wearing a vest, right index finger raised, and the left in the vest’s watch pocket).

    Reply
  17. Westerner

    “I am not your brother.”

    Mon dieu, pour quoi pouvez-vous ca. Nous sommes tout les freres et soeurs en le monde. N’est pas?

    “I know it’s hard to admit that life has given you a raw deal, but the fact is you guys have to work longer than us to pay for the bare necessities of life.”

    Oui et c’est incroyable que nous pay pour les necessites de vie pour toi aussi. Tres bien pour vous tous en Quebec et mal pour nous dans le ROC. Merci beaucoup pour ca, frere jean.

    “So, let me get this straight: making immigrants speak english is okay, but making them speak french is bad?
    Can you explain the, et… “logic” behind that???”

    Pourquoi ne pas les laisser apprendre la langue qu’ils veulent, ou deux des langues officieles.
    Car, vous sont les maudits bigots.

    “you are anglo-saxon, and anglo-saxons are culturally incapable of understanding other cultures”

    Bien sur Jean, selon, vous. Vous qui etes l’amour avec votre langue et culture que vous ne peut pas etre objectif sur les autres cultures.

    “The Caisse plunged following anglo-saxon-by-proxy interference”

    Encore une fois, vous detourner des veritable responsibilites a’ d’autres. Mon dieu, Des francos fait jamais un erreur, selon vous.

    Mais, vous etes tres marrant, M. Namair. Vous me faire rire avec votre sac de vent. WHOOOSHHHH

    Reply
  18. Hugo Shebbeare

    As many may have already noticed, I’m a
    trying my best to be even-handed about these issues surrounding the balance of
    power in Canada, by means of one who has ascended to the top of the said govt.
    institution thanks to a pretty decent curriculum vitae /superior problem
    solving and optimization abilities/experience (despite multiple jambettes from
    jealous territorialists)…only to be kept down by the likes of a brain-washed
    generation’s complacency.

     

    Jean (our Troll), trips up over himself,
    over and over…no wonder I only have to pick at random one or two points of his
    rebuttals to remind him of his ignorance. Let’s take the biotech companies (who
    use the poor locals as guinea pigs for their drugs at 1000 a head to ‘test’, if
    they haven’t bought out a local doctor doing so on their own patients – Paul
    Arcand explains this well) which he so loves to use:  why is it that half of
    the 840 biotech companies, mostly MTL-based, only (let me switch languages for
    the national post quote, used in a FR paper) n’ont en encaissé que 50% des
    liquidités necessaries pour un année.  La situation sera dramatique si elles ne
    reçoivent aucune aide (so, more than half are Bankrupt basically, and require a
    huge bail out too). Cette industrie emploie directement et indirectement 103k
    personnes. Six biotech québécoises on cessé leurs activitiés en 2008.  – effectivement
    c’est une problématique énorme
    .

     

    Jump the shark? The law that we are subject
    to? Who’s that then: you repetitively harass us for something unfounded (links
    to CNT and law already given) – English speaking Quebeckers for us not wanting
    to learn French…and think that because you are part of the majority (although
    only the brutes, a small part of the actual majority) you can take advantage of
    the apathy to hound us and spread your disgusting propaganda….look at how you
    howl at us, eventhough this is about having OUR rights stripped from us (flip
    back the problem and distract everyone).  Wow, I step away from the debate on QC
    (fr-avant-tout) and you are still ignoring Canadian Criminal law for preaching
    hatred against a minority that has had to leave their home province by the
    hundreds of thousands since the militant movement started. Dégoutant, indeed.

    Your sovt. élite squander 40BN of the
    retirement money and they walk away without jail time while you play the
    one-trick pony scapegoat…don’t talk to us about Rule of Law (because here, when
    it means stepping on a disdained minority, it is okay, or hitting up the Fed.
    Liberals for a multi-million dollar Sponsorship Scandal deserves more attention
    – HYPOCRISY à la Québécoise anyone?). It’s okay to throw a never-ending bureaucratic
    wall in front of the minority when justice needs to be heard? Vexatious
    behaviour and even spitting on victims of what all will, without any shadow of a
    doubt, come to understand soon enough because the only propaganda you’ll hear
    from me is the truth – an eye witness to it all. It’s going to be fun to
    validate this all with the new guard at the CDPQ now that mediation has a set
    date in a few week.  They have an example of how NOT to do things, that is for
    sure.

     

    Just in BC, since your ignorance is
    considerably astounding with respect to anything outside of the province….here is
    a copy of BC tech magazine:

    http://209.205.95.211/joomla/tech/images/stories/bctech08/BCTech2008_ebook.pdf

    hmm, because Vancouver has the most hybrid
    taxis in Canada, the largest fleet of electric busses, is preparing for the
    next generation of hydrogen fuel cells thanks to Ballard – they’re stuck in
    this supposed RedNeckLand concept your little mind cannot diverge from.  And,
    no, out West, we don’t build progressive structures either: 
    http://photos-d-4.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs106.snc1/4788_202200630316_904205316_7381275_3140578_n.jpg 
    Vancouver’s new convention centre has an entirely eco-friendly roof (garden):
    http://www.vancouverconventioncentre.com/   (more proof that the one who cries
    out the loudest about cluelessness is the most clueless of all – just
    like the militant sovereigntists’ idea of democracy, more of the ‘what did I
    lose’ defence…duh, not sure ’bout that – credibility maybe?)  BC
    certainly has its beefs with Ottawa also, because most successful provincial
    parties, like liberal leader Campbell – think BC-first.

     

    It comes down to this, that here, if you
    cross one of the little-people types (go ahead and register, I won’t delete
    your comments – everyone else should see how much of a Chump you are too), no
    matter how much more competency you have, not matter how good your French is,
    the natural tendency is to play territorial school yard (maitre-chez nous
    justification, which only leads to contempt) gang-like politics (e.g. in the
    office place in Montreal). You are trying to attain a degree of influence that
    is not deserved, and justify this as such by demanding supremacy of French due
    to your fear of its loss ( moot, since it is for over 400 years) and going as
    far to demand obedience from minorities, even when they are right technically,
    legally, morally, and bilingual too…but still blocked from doing their job.

     

    I don’t care if on occasion I just have to
    suck it up and not ‘be right’ I can wait , but when the degree is to the level
    where it fundamentally affects all of our retirement monies, no matter what
    side of the argument you are on…cannot be left – one day when all has been
    validated, the real decision makers in the govt will bring back the balance –
    ah, but wait, they already started. I will take my time and show how with many
    examples, oops…heavy Christian background baggage I cannot shed easily, as the
    meek shall inherit the earth – not the goons.

     

    The commonwealth exists to this day because
    it accepts change when it is necessary and luckily, since the Franco-Norman
    invasion …there are the right people, who strive to set examples – even when it
    means great personal sacrifice, close enough to key decision makers even if
    they appear to have a great Temper, but diffuse this anger by repetitively
    arguing ‘from the heart’ about the real issues.  I shall not be shutting up
    anytime soon J

     

    Westerner, we are a multi-nation state,
    it’s politics 101. En-Fr-FN are the pillars of this country. J’ai des amis comme Pollus ou Alexandre qui essai, avec moi
    ensemble, de revenir vers les exemples tel que Baldwin et Lafontaine…mais les
    dommages causés par ces brutes restent à niveler (level off to the extremists
    they truly are, and the much diminished influence they truly have now). We should take care not to be side-tracked by sovt. goons who take
    advantage of a situation to dissuade the ROC from learning the language of a founding
    nation either. We have to think positively and remember the collaboration that
    works…and the things from both linguistic sides that make Montreal great.

     

    The point is that we have to handle those
    hot potatoes properly, and someone has to take on this issue, b/c it is one of
    the biggest Canada faces today (not an imperialist passion, just a
    determination to improve an intolerable situation of double-standards that we
    are supposed to suck-in by means of the brain-washed majority of QC steered by
    Losership).  The Govt. is too boy-scout to deal with the issue, so I shall by
    literature, awareness and by smacking down the (but funny that, how Charest is
    doing – maybe he is listening to my e-mails, at least he thanked me for themJ ). There
    must be a fix..and it begins by putting the goons in their place to get to
    what’s real – the discrimination (outcry of Sabia taking over the CDPQ). If QC
    takes this step to admit it internally, and begin the process of reconciliation,
    then the example will be set for the rest of Canada that the majority in the
    province has woken up, and maybe we can progress as a Unified Country again.

     

    After what had happened to me personally at
    the CDPQ, I could have done like another family member (see 1918 the Maurice
    Affair, Papers) and taken on the govt. publically, even to the point of parliament
    almost throwing out the PM himself, but I am patient and will let the govt.
    itself do it’s job at it’s own pace because I know that those who tried to
    change the truth at the CDPQ have already been shown the door for the most
    part.

    Reply
  19. Line

    I don’t think I’ll be writing any letters to be honest seems like I mentioned to Westerner, a total waste of time. To be honest Tony K’s book makes very good sense and who knows perhaps next time there is a referendum, we’ll all be put out of this misery…if other Anglos are going to support the book, why not? Afterall, the Liberals do not represent the minorities and just keep taking more and more rights away from Anglophones. As has been the case for many years now. I agree with Tony K that we in Quebec live in a totalitarian state, not a democracy…and Canada (and Liberals) endorse it. How can Canada be deemed a democracy with a Law such as Bill 101.

    Reply
  20. Didi47

    Westerner,

    Seems they “..Can’t Answer That One..” For Quebeck either!

    Therefore.. If they can’t answer what it is they actually DO .. methinks our MP’s & MNA’s have some explaining to do!! Same goes for Heritage Canada… that’s been raping us for multi-millions a YEAR for over 3 decades!!!

    WTF are they doing with ALL that MONEY???? OUR MONEY!!

    Time for some accountability – wouldn’t you agree?

    I’ve got some email addresses and more if you’re interested. But I won’t list anything on this site..
    Maybe we could find a common net meeting ground that won’t have jean or Marc lurking about.

    Reply
  21. Jean Naimard

    Tony K.???

    Wouldn’t that be Tony Kondaks, by any chance?

    I remember hammering him on USENET during the 1995 referendum…

    Reply
  22. Marc

    Maybe we could find a common net meeting ground that won’t have jean or Marc lurking about

    Jean is the one massively pro-101. I’m not. Not one bit. My beef was with you calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi. Nothing more. Your posts actually make perfect sense when you don’t go on about Hitler. :)

    Reply
  23. Didi47

    I have never called anyone a Nazi. I have called Jean a Nazi sympathizer and I have made multiple “ethnic cleansing” comparisons with the methods used by the Nazi party and the PQ.
    And I will continue to do so – because it’s the truth! Just because YOU don’t like it – and disagree – does NOT mean it’s not the TRUTH.

    Reply
  24. Didi47

    Jean that’s another piece of bullshit.. You couldn’t hammer Tony Kondaks out of a paper bag… You can’t hammer anyone.. You think you do … but you continue to fail at it miserably. The truth keeps biting you in the ass. Must hurt to sit down lol.

    Reply
  25. Westerner

    “You couldn’t hammer Tony Kondaks out of a paper bag… You can’t hammer anyone.. ”

    Not without hitting his thumb first.. LOL.. then dropping the hammer and running for a band aid. Must be hard to feed himself with his foot down his throught most times.

    Reply
  26. Jean Naimard

    Jean is the one massively pro-101. I’m not. Not one bit.

    U.S. blacks have what they call “oreos”. They’re black outside, and white on the inside (I suppose that here, in the same situation, we’d call them “whippets”…). Here we have the same thing: they are french outside, but english on the inside. Trudeau was a prime example of that, and when you look carefully, there are still plenty of those going around… After 250 years, they still have not clued-in that the english will give nothing, unless you put a gun to their head.

    I have called Jean a Nazi sympathizer and I have made multiple “ethnic cleansing” comparisons with the methods used by the Nazi party and the PQ.

    Ensuring that the immigrants don’t turn into english is **NOT** ethnic cleansing. No english have ever been kicked out of Québec; those who left did it on their own volition, mostly because they could not stomach not being in charge.
     

    Jean that’s another piece of bullshit.. You couldn’t hammer Tony Kondaks out of a paper bag… You can’t hammer anyone.. You think you do … but you continue to fail at it miserably. The truth keeps biting you in the ass. Must hurt to sit down lol.

    Typical answer of someone who’s totally clueless (which is a prime trait of rhodesians, who are culturally unable to understand other cultures).

    Reply
    1. Fagstein Post author

      U.S. blacks have what they call “oreos”. They’re black outside, and white on the inside

      And calling someone that is considered extremely offensive, not to mention ignorant. I believe the same applies here.

      Reply
  27. Jean Naimard

    And calling someone that is considered extremely offensive, not to mention ignorant. I believe the same applies here.

    Offensive, yes, absolutely. By design and all intents and purpose. Ignorant? I daresay no.
    And, besides, the US blacks have been brought as slaves which is not exactly the same situation as ours being occupied by the english.
    When a country is stolen/occupied by a foreign power, and the occupier use their laws to advantage themselves and suppress attempts to free it from the occupier, why should those occupied who collaborate with the occupier by siding with them deserve any respect?
    The britiish empire trademark has been to use one faction of the colonized to do their dirty work for them (why do you think tamils are being discriminated against in Sri-Lanka? They were the british minions, that’s why*). Here, the Trudeaux, Chétiens and all that liberal ilk (starting at Cartier and Laurier) did the job. (I don’t mention Bourassa because he was a moins que rien). And why do you think that an overwhelming proportion of native land claims are in Québec (the other in B.C.), and why do you think the federal has been dragging it’s feet with the Kanesatake business — it’s still not an indian reserve — if only to divide and rule????
    Why the french who blatantly side with the english shall deserve any respect???
     
    History‘s greatest lesson shall be that no one shall reap any reward for selling-out his nation but eternal scorn.
     
    * Not that I approve of the merciless bombardment of the tamils, but they kinda brought it upon themselves when they invented suicide bombing 35 years ago… No, Oussama did not invent anything.

    Reply
  28. Line

    Yes Jean that would be Tony Kondaks…and personally I don’t really care who you say you hammered…
    I had posted a link to his new book however, the link was not approved…I suggest you do a google search for it Jean, he may just become your new friend…

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>