Comments on: TRAM 3 at Longueuil: Right decision for the wrong reason http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/ Can you think of a better name? Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:19:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Linda http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-281465 Linda Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:37:20 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-281465 I know I am jumping on the bandwagon rather late in replying to this post, but I came across it on the internet and just had to give it my own two cents. I myself sir, am one of your tiny minority affected by this change. As a student, I walk to the metro to save money (a LOT of money) and don't need the amt pass. I know of others who bike there - or carpool. Why should those who don't need a pass in Longueuil be held hostage because the mayor of Laval is whining about costs? They get a brand new shiny metro - whereas we are still using the same existing service that has been in place forever. Why should I end up paying 40$ extra a month? Out of an already really tight budget? It's very comforting to know that those in power, or those commenting feel that this "small minority" of people who will be affected are of little importance. That this will mostly nab drivers on the south shore. However I do sympathize with them - people drive everywhere on the south shore (non-including myself) because there is a SHIT transit system. Infrequent. Unreliable. It's a necessity for many. I'm sure if you took notice most the cars in that parking lot are probably from cities like Chambly or St-Basile who have horrible transit systems. It's unfortunate for our society that is trying to promote public transit and greener ways of getting around to neglect to consider how certain decisions are adversely affecting its citizens. Thank you AMT for eventually cutting 40$ extra out of my student budget every month. I'm sure the government will compensate me. Right. I know I am jumping on the bandwagon rather late in replying to this post, but I came across it on the internet and just had to give it my own two cents. I myself sir, am one of your tiny minority affected by this change. As a student, I walk to the metro to save money (a LOT of money) and don't need the amt pass. I know of others who bike there - or carpool. Why should those who don't need a pass in Longueuil be held hostage because the mayor of Laval is whining about costs? They get a brand new shiny metro - whereas we are still using the same existing service that has been in place forever. Why should I end up paying 40$ extra a month? Out of an already really tight budget? It's very comforting to know that those in power, or those commenting feel that this "small minority" of people who will be affected are of little importance. That this will mostly nab drivers on the south shore. However I do sympathize with them - people drive everywhere on the south shore (non-including myself) because there is a SHIT transit system. Infrequent. Unreliable. It's a necessity for many. I'm sure if you took notice most the cars in that parking lot are probably from cities like Chambly or St-Basile who have horrible transit systems. It's unfortunate for our society that is trying to promote public transit and greener ways of getting around to neglect to consider how certain decisions are adversely affecting its citizens. Thank you AMT for eventually cutting 40$ extra out of my student budget every month. I'm sure the government will compensate me. Right.

]]> By: SMS http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-161288 SMS Thu, 17 Jun 2010 11:57:09 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-161288 Hey Fagstein! How bout an update?! :P Hey Fagstein! How bout an update?! :P

]]> By: Fair-Share http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-135707 Fair-Share Thu, 15 Apr 2010 19:43:42 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-135707 I bet you hasn't born when the Longueuil metro station been built. The fare, which people paid for entering Longueuil metro station, has used to raise you, paying your child care and day care. Freeload, you're the one taking freeload during those years! I bet you hasn't born when the Longueuil metro station been built.
The fare, which people paid for entering Longueuil metro station, has used to raise you, paying your child care and day care. Freeload, you're the one taking freeload during those years!

]]> By: Jean Naimard http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-123591 Jean Naimard Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:00:12 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-123591 Yes, freeload. Even if you pay for your fare, you don’t pay the taxes that make up the difference between your fare and what your trip costs the STM. Yes, freeload. Even if you pay for your fare, you don’t pay the taxes that make up the difference between your fare and what your trip costs the STM.

]]> By: Merica http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-122932 Merica Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:33:32 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-122932 Wow are you for real? Freeload??? We are still paying the fare to go onto the metro, it's not like we get it for free Wow are you for real? Freeload??? We are still paying the fare to go onto the metro, it's not like we get it for free

]]> By: Jean Naimard http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-122718 Jean Naimard Fri, 12 Mar 2010 06:29:08 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-122718 If they lived in Montréal, they would spend even more in Montréal. But right now, all those people <strong>**FREELOAD**</strong> from Longueuil so it’s only fair that they pay more. Because as a montrealer, I am fed-up of paying for the suburban freeloaders. If they lived in Montréal, they would spend even more in Montréal.
But right now, all those people **FREELOAD** from Longueuil so it’s only fair that they pay more. Because as a montrealer, I am fed-up of paying for the suburban freeloaders.

]]> By: SHARON http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-122657 SHARON Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:27:04 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-122657 MY DAUGHTER LIVES IN LONGUEUIL.. SHE WENT TO CHAMPLAIN COLLEGE FOR TWO YEARS THERE AND LOVES IT BECAUSE IT'S QUIET AND SHE FEELS MORE SAFE THERE THAN MONTREAL. NOW SHE ATTENDS MCGILL UNIVERSITY. SHE PAYS SEVENTY DOLLARS NOW INSTEAD OF THE 38 WITH THE OPUS CARD. THAT IS BAD ENOUGH FOR A STUDENT TO PAY. NEXT YEAR SHE WILL NOW HAVE TO PAY 111 DOLLARS. I AGREE WITH MANY OF THE WRITERS. ALSO PEOPLE WHO USE THIS TRANSIT ARE MOSTLY GOING TO MONTREAL. THERE THEY WILL GO TO SCHOOL, WORK OR SHOP, GO TO RESTAURANTS, ETC. THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY IN THE CITY. MY DAUGHTER LIVES IN LONGUEUIL.. SHE WENT TO CHAMPLAIN COLLEGE FOR TWO YEARS THERE AND LOVES IT BECAUSE IT'S QUIET AND SHE FEELS MORE SAFE THERE THAN MONTREAL. NOW SHE ATTENDS MCGILL UNIVERSITY. SHE PAYS SEVENTY DOLLARS NOW INSTEAD OF THE 38 WITH THE OPUS CARD. THAT IS BAD ENOUGH FOR A STUDENT TO PAY. NEXT YEAR SHE WILL NOW HAVE TO PAY 111 DOLLARS.
I AGREE WITH MANY OF THE WRITERS. ALSO PEOPLE WHO USE THIS TRANSIT ARE MOSTLY GOING TO MONTREAL. THERE THEY WILL GO TO SCHOOL, WORK OR SHOP, GO TO RESTAURANTS, ETC. THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY IN THE CITY.

]]> By: Metro_User http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-118497 Metro_User Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:27:47 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-118497 Discrimination: means treat a minority of people differently. That is what the STM did. Cannot believe someone even pray it is a "Right decision for the wrong reason". sanctimonious Discrimination: means treat a minority of people differently.
That is what the STM did. Cannot believe someone even pray it is a "Right decision for the wrong reason". sanctimonious

]]> By: Jean Naimard http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-118149 Jean Naimard Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:58:39 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-118149 Walk to Île-Ste-Hélène. Walk to Île-Ste-Hélène.

]]> By: Pin-Fo Chen http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-117608 Pin-Fo Chen Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:49 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-117608 This really makes no sense, thinkg of the students who go to Universite de Montreal and the people going to Sherbrooke University from Montreal, they'll know have to pay extra just because they go to school here in order to go home? Make no sense at all. Is that accounted in the 15% too? This really makes no sense, thinkg of the students who go to Universite de Montreal and the people going to Sherbrooke University from Montreal, they'll know have to pay extra just because they go to school here in order to go home? Make no sense at all.
Is that accounted in the 15% too?

]]> By: Jean Naimard http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-117185 Jean Naimard Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:32:15 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-117185 <blockquote> <em>First of all, people like Jean Naimard are idiots and should be ignored. (The fact that the proximity of the city has inflated house prices beyond people's means is a *benefit*? WTF?) </em> </blockquote> Although I would normally tend to agree with you on the affordability of houses, the first part of your… er… “argument” tends to say that the value of their houses is the foremost thing on the mind of homeowners. <blockquote> <em>Second, it's too bad I missed this thread when it was hot. </em> </blockquote> It doesn’t take much to revive it. <blockquote> <em>Finally, it always drives me crazy that these issues of public transit are always decided by people who DON'T EVEN USE public transit! </em> </blockquote> How could you be suprised by this fact? Have you been sleeping those last 20-30-40-50 years??? <blockquote> <em>OK, a bit more: all these Montrealers who think the 450s are getting some kind of "free ride" and are costing Montrealers all kinds of money and inconvenience are full of crap. </em> </blockquote> Sure they are. They benefit nothing at all to the central city. They come there, work, and go back “home” and spend their money in the strip malls there, pay no taxes to Montréal despite being responsible for a significant portion of the road congestion and the pollution that claims thousands of lives yearly. <blockquote> <em>Instead of getting all phobic on people just because they live in a different neighbourhood, why not think in terms of what can be done to bring people together and bring down walls instead of getting all Balkanized and hateful and putting up walls?</em> </blockquote> Says someone who resolutely avoids integrating with the french majority!!!

First of all, people like Jean Naimard are idiots and should be ignored. (The fact that the proximity of the city has inflated house prices beyond people's means is a *benefit*? WTF?)

Although I would normally tend to agree with you on the affordability of houses, the first part of your… er… “argument” tends to say that the value of their houses is the foremost thing on the mind of homeowners.

Second, it's too bad I missed this thread when it was hot.

It doesn’t take much to revive it.

Finally, it always drives me crazy that these issues of public transit are always decided by people who DON'T EVEN USE public transit!

How could you be suprised by this fact? Have you been sleeping those last 20-30-40-50 years???

OK, a bit more: all these Montrealers who think the 450s are getting some kind of "free ride" and are costing Montrealers all kinds of money and inconvenience are full of crap.

Sure they are. They benefit nothing at all to the central city. They come there, work, and go back “home” and spend their money in the strip malls there, pay no taxes to Montréal despite being responsible for a significant portion of the road congestion and the pollution that claims thousands of lives yearly.

Instead of getting all phobic on people just because they live in a different neighbourhood, why not think in terms of what can be done to bring people together and bring down walls instead of getting all Balkanized and hateful and putting up walls?

Says someone who resolutely avoids integrating with the french majority!!!

]]> By: Blork http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-117126 Blork Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:58:25 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-117126 First of all, people like Jean Naimard are idiots and should be ignored. (The fact that the proximity of the city has inflated house prices beyond people's means is a *benefit*? WTF?) Second, it's too bad I missed this thread when it was hot. Finally, it always drives me crazy that these issues of public transit are always decided by people who DON'T EVEN USE public transit! OK, a bit more: all these Montrealers who think the 450s are getting some kind of "free ride" and are costing Montrealers all kinds of money and inconvenience are full of crap. Instead of getting all phobic on people just because they live in a different neighbourhood, why not think in terms of what can be done to bring people together and bring down walls instead of getting all Balkanized and hateful and putting up walls? First of all, people like Jean Naimard are idiots and should be ignored. (The fact that the proximity of the city has inflated house prices beyond people's means is a *benefit*? WTF?)

Second, it's too bad I missed this thread when it was hot.

Finally, it always drives me crazy that these issues of public transit are always decided by people who DON'T EVEN USE public transit!

OK, a bit more: all these Montrealers who think the 450s are getting some kind of "free ride" and are costing Montrealers all kinds of money and inconvenience are full of crap. Instead of getting all phobic on people just because they live in a different neighbourhood, why not think in terms of what can be done to bring people together and bring down walls instead of getting all Balkanized and hateful and putting up walls?

]]> By: William Moss http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-116436 William Moss Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:47:55 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-116436 Before the metro, the MTC DID have a zone system. I (barely) remember when you needed to use an extra 5 cent inter-zone ticket to transfer from the 101 (now 103) to the 162 in Cote St Luc. Before the metro, the MTC DID have a zone system. I (barely) remember when you needed to use an extra 5 cent inter-zone ticket to transfer from the 101 (now 103) to the 162 in Cote St Luc.

]]> By: telso http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-116114 telso Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:53:36 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-116114 People paying in cash or with individual tickets pay the full distance fare. Those using OPUS cards can take advantage of partial-distance fares. This will convince more people to switch over. (Yes, it's slightly unfair for tourists, but Boston and London do it, and if you're using it more than a few times it's worth it and if you're not it costs you a few dollars extra at most.) You can allow negative balances (down to -$7, what we paid for the card in the first place, or down to -$whatever the most expensive individual trip is), like the Octopus card, so you can always complete your trip if you start with a positive balance, but then you have to recharge. So people can always leave the system once they're in, but can't go in if they can't afford to leave (like now). And yes, it will take time for people to adapt to tapping out. So start it at metros, where people are used to going through turnstiles on exit, and expand it to buses and trains later. We're conditioning them to keep their fare at all times while in the system, so it's just one more step. Adaptable period, then warning period, then we're there. We can even put tap-out stations at popular stops so people can leave the bus first and then tap out (add it to those new abribus with power supply and next buses built right in). People in other cities can figure it out, why not Montrealers? People paying in cash or with individual tickets pay the full distance fare. Those using OPUS cards can take advantage of partial-distance fares. This will convince more people to switch over. (Yes, it's slightly unfair for tourists, but Boston and London do it, and if you're using it more than a few times it's worth it and if you're not it costs you a few dollars extra at most.) You can allow negative balances (down to -$7, what we paid for the card in the first place, or down to -$whatever the most expensive individual trip is), like the Octopus card, so you can always complete your trip if you start with a positive balance, but then you have to recharge. So people can always leave the system once they're in, but can't go in if they can't afford to leave (like now).

And yes, it will take time for people to adapt to tapping out. So start it at metros, where people are used to going through turnstiles on exit, and expand it to buses and trains later. We're conditioning them to keep their fare at all times while in the system, so it's just one more step. Adaptable period, then warning period, then we're there. We can even put tap-out stations at popular stops so people can leave the bus first and then tap out (add it to those new abribus with power supply and next buses built right in). People in other cities can figure it out, why not Montrealers?

]]> By: Caroline http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-116077 Caroline Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:53:33 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-116077 And for those of us who live in Montreal and work/study in Longueuil, we do pay municipal taxes to the STM.... And for those of us who live in Montreal and work/study in Longueuil, we do pay municipal taxes to the STM....

]]> By: Caroline http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-116076 Caroline Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:48:14 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-116076 But I *do* live on the island of Montreal! Unfortunately I work on the South Shore... but within walking distance of the Longueuil metro. I have no need of the RTL buses -- why should I have to pay for them? But I *do* live on the island of Montreal! Unfortunately I work on the South Shore... but within walking distance of the Longueuil metro. I have no need of the RTL buses -- why should I have to pay for them?

]]> By: Caroline http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-116074 Caroline Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:34:26 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-116074 I am in the same situation. I live in Montreal and work within walking distance of Longueuil metro. This is a job I recently accepted at lower pay than my previous job. I figured that although my transit time would increase, at least the cost would stay the same. Now I see that I am looking at an additional $480 a year. I am seriously considering any and all alternatives to not paying this. What if I buy a CAM as usual, and use tickets to return home? Could I carpool? What about cycling in the summer? I am seriously pissed off that I am being forced to pay $480 extra for no extra benefit. I am in the same situation. I live in Montreal and work within walking distance of Longueuil metro. This is a job I recently accepted at lower pay than my previous job. I figured that although my transit time would increase, at least the cost would stay the same. Now I see that I am looking at an additional $480 a year. I am seriously considering any and all alternatives to not paying this. What if I buy a CAM as usual, and use tickets to return home? Could I carpool? What about cycling in the summer?

I am seriously pissed off that I am being forced to pay $480 extra for no extra benefit.

]]> By: MB http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-116024 MB Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:02 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-116024 Just a tiny correction, there were 26 original stations, not 64. When the metro opened, it went from: Atwater - Frontenac, Bonaventure - Henri-Bourassa, and Berri-de-Montagny - Longueuil. Just a tiny correction, there were 26 original stations, not 64. When the metro opened, it went from:
Atwater - Frontenac,
Bonaventure - Henri-Bourassa, and
Berri-de-Montagny - Longueuil.

]]> By: Jean Naimard http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-115929 Jean Naimard Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:58:56 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-115929 It’s always fun to hear the ’burbs squeal when they are confronted with their freeloading reality… They bitch that the central city is “costing” them a lot, but they do not see the benefits they get from the central city. For example, without Montréal, the ’burbs would just be wasteland. Instead of be worth $600,000 (in the head of the owner), that modly Mc-Gill split in Pointe-Claire would be worth about $150,000. Being a ’burb of Montréal is a privilege and it has it’s costs. Without Montréal, there just would be no place to go working; companies that are in the ’burbs are attracted by Montréal; if Montréal was magically  gouged-out from the map and transported somewhere nice, like around Franquelin or Frelisburgh, companies would have no reason to set shop in Longueuil, Laval or Lorraine. The thing is,  as much as no man is one, Montréal is an island bathed by quite a sizeable river; crossing that body of water is expensive; it has to be, bridges always has been and rivers always shaped human geography. It’s always fun to hear the ’burbs squeal when they are confronted with their freeloading reality…
They bitch that the central city is “costing” them a lot, but they do not see the benefits they get from the central city.
For example, without Montréal, the ’burbs would just be wasteland. Instead of be worth $600,000 (in the head of the owner), that modly Mc-Gill split in Pointe-Claire would be worth about $150,000.
Being a ’burb of Montréal is a privilege and it has it’s costs.
Without Montréal, there just would be no place to go working; companies that are in the ’burbs are attracted by Montréal; if Montréal was magically  gouged-out from the map and transported somewhere nice, like around Franquelin or Frelisburgh, companies would have no reason to set shop in Longueuil, Laval or Lorraine.
The thing is,  as much as no man is one, Montréal is an island bathed by quite a sizeable river; crossing that body of water is expensive; it has to be, bridges always has been and rivers always shaped human geography.

]]> By: emdx http://blog.fagstein.com/2010/02/04/tram3-at-longueuil/comment-page-1/#comment-115896 emdx Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:32:32 +0000 http://blog.fagstein.com/?p=8327#comment-115896 Not really. Pay-by-the-distance sounds feasible, but without exit ticket readers and ticket machines inside the fare-paid zone (like in the US cities that have the system), it cannot happen. Besides that, pay-by-the-distance is so much not in the people’s mentality here that they would face an extreme uphill battle trying to implement it. And how could you implement this on buses? You have to swipe your pass/ticket as you go out the front door, taking more time? And what if you go out and don’t have the proper fare? You slam the bus door in the front of the guy? If that would happen, you would have basis for a criminal detention lawsuit, unless you make every bus driver a sworn-in peace officer. Because many people, when told to pay extra when exiting from the bus, would tell the driver to shove it. No, pay-by-the-distance would open up so much legal cans or worms that it is just not contemptible. The people may be sheeple, but they will not bendover that much backwards. Not really.

Pay-by-the-distance sounds feasible, but without exit ticket readers and ticket machines inside the fare-paid zone (like in the US cities that have the system), it cannot happen.

Besides that, pay-by-the-distance is so much not in the people’s mentality here that they would face an extreme uphill battle trying to implement it.

And how could you implement this on buses? You have to swipe your pass/ticket as you go out the front door, taking more time? And what if you go out and don’t have the proper fare? You slam the bus door in the front of the guy? If that would happen, you would have basis for a criminal detention lawsuit, unless you make every bus driver a sworn-in peace officer.

Because many people, when told to pay extra when exiting from the bus, would tell the driver to shove it.

No, pay-by-the-distance would open up so much legal cans or worms that it is just not contemptible. The people may be sheeple, but they will not bendover that much backwards.

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